QHYCCD

After LTN4323 , an other "Chosen One", the BSI monochrome HWK4123

xs_man

  • ***
  • 184
    • View Profile
Hi Qiu,
Hi all,

On the paper, it's the killer midium-sized monochrome BSI sensor we
are desperatly waiting for...  The new Fairchild  HWK4123 :

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2020/02/fairchild-imaging-announces-scmos-30.html

Let's have a look :
- Monochrome,
- BSI,
- a Rooling Shutter,
- Read Noise :  0.5 e- RMS   
- cool medium format 4/3"
- 9 Mpix, 4096x2300,
- 4.6 microns pixel size,

Even if it has to be evaluated for our use (dark noise, FPN, QE, cooling,Amp Glow, Gain,...), it's
an impressive candidate ! The most impressive until now !

Alb?ric
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 11:41:58 am by xs_man »

xs_man

  • ***
  • 184
    • View Profile
Let's try an other time... ;D

Alberic

QiuHY

  • *****
  • 4982
    • View Profile
    • Email
Hello Alberic,

        This sensor looks very good. But I guess high cost?

Best regards,
Qiu Hongyun
Qiu Hongyun

xs_man

  • ***
  • 184
    • View Profile
Hello Qiu,  ;)

For sure, it will not be a low cost sensor, I know...
But the specs are so impressive on the paper !  It's a real "beast".
And all parameters are "cool" and "sexy" : pixels size, format size, read
noise, dynamic range, very low dark current. I don't have QE information
but I think it's over 70 and near 80%. To be checked of course.

I don''t know if Fairschild will accept easily to sell it...
Maybe you could try to ask to Fairschild the price and avaibility ?
For astronomy amateurs use Fairschild, may be receptive, I hope.

It's important to have first an idea of a camera cost using Class 1 or Class 2
HWK4123 to compare to existing cameras using Gsense sensors.

If impossible to have this sensor, why not asking for LTN4323 that maybe
costless ?

We have to be sure that this value of 0.5 e- is not only a dream on the paper.
And check Amp Glow, electronic gain scale, FPN (check if remains constant in
time).

I'm ready to pay the camera if, as I expect, this sensor is as exceptionnal as
described with no "hidden trap".

Many thanks ! 

Alb?ric

« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 12:41:37 pm by xs_man »

Roch

I agree with Alberic !

Of course we don't know the price, but I think it's at least worth checking, if you can...

This sensor is so above everything else that is currently available, it fits so perfectly my setup, that i would consider paying a big bunch.
And I think it's the same for a lot of other astronomers. Getting a nice working full frame system is hard, and especially for a 60Mp camera like the imx455. Having a system optimized for APS-C or 4/3" is way easier...

And the 0.5e- on that pixel size in monochrome... damn. That would make a huge difference in lucky imaging.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 11:20:04 am by Roch »

QiuHY

  • *****
  • 4982
    • View Profile
    • Email
I agree with Alberic !

Of course we don't know the price, but I think it's at least worth checking, if you can...

This sensor is so above everything else that is currently available, it fits so perfectly my setup, that i would consider paying a big bunch.
And I think it's the same for a lot of other astronomers. Getting a nice working full frame system is hard, and especially for a 60Mp camera like the imx455. Having a system optimized for APS-C or 4/3" is way easier...

And the 0.5e- on that pixel size in monochrome... damn. That would make a huge difference in lucky imaging.


Hello,

       This year we will release a new sony 4/3inch monochrome sensor and maybe APS-C monochrom sensor. Maybe consider this.

Bet regards,
QiuHongyun
Qiu Hongyun

Roch

Well, if there are some new sensors that i'm not aware of, that's great !
But if the readout noise is above 1e- or even 0.8e-, i'm not very interested... because my imx290 will still be better ;) ( even though it is very small )
That's also why i considered qhy2020 but never bought it... the readout noise was announced at 0.8e- at first, that would have been great !

Thank you for the reply anyway !

Romain
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 04:57:34 am by Roch »

xs_man

  • ***
  • 184
    • View Profile
Hello Qiu,
Hello Romain,

Actual known monochrome Sony sensors are very limited in these sizes :

4/3 :

IMX387 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns
IMX367 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns - slower version of IMX 387

APS-C :

IMX342 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns

All these sensor are Global Shutter so high cost and poor performances : medium QE
(70% pic), little sized pixels, high readout noise (near 2.2 e- in HCG). Frankly, I
will not spend any money on them, I keep my QHY 174 M.

So I really hope that it's another sensors that are not on market or that Sony
will add monochrome versions of existing colors sensor. For example, mono version
of IMX 294, IMX299, IMX272, IMX 269, IMX 271, or better, mono IMX 571 ??   

Let us know Qiu.
Many thanks !

Alb?ric 

QiuHY

  • *****
  • 4982
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: After LTN4323 , an other "Chosen One", the BSI monochrome HWK4123
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2020, 12:44:40 pm »
Hello Qiu,
Hello Romain,

Actual known monochrome Sony sensors are very limited in these sizes :

4/3 :

IMX387 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns
IMX367 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns - slower version of IMX 387

APS-C :

IMX342 - Global Shutter Pregius - pix : 3.45 microns

All these sensor are Global Shutter so high cost and poor performances : medium QE
(70% pic), little sized pixels, high readout noise (near 2.2 e- in HCG). Frankly, I
will not spend any money on them, I keep my QHY 174 M.

So I really hope that it's another sensors that are not on market or that Sony
will add monochrome versions of existing colors sensor. For example, mono version
of IMX 294, IMX299, IMX272, IMX 269, IMX 271, or better, mono IMX 571 ??   

Let us know Qiu.
Many thanks !

Alb?ric


In this year there will be two new monochrom sensor come out. Both are BSI rolling shutter.

Best regards,
Qiu Hongyun
Qiu Hongyun

Roch

Re: After LTN4323 , an other "Chosen One", the BSI monochrome HWK4123
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2020, 01:43:15 pm »



In this year there will be two new monochrom sensor come out. Both are BSI rolling shutter.

Best regards,
Qiu Hongyun

That's great news :)

Waiting for it !

Romain

xs_man

  • ***
  • 184
    • View Profile
Re: After LTN4323 , an other "Chosen One", the BSI monochrome HWK4123
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2020, 03:06:17 pm »

In this year there will be two new monochrom sensor come out. Both are BSI rolling shutter.

Best regards,
Qiu Hongyun

That's great news :)

Waiting for it !

Romain


Hi Qiu and Romain,  ;)

And me too !

Let's hope that pixels size will be minimum 2.9 microns...
I have great expectations that these sensors will fill the lack of intermediate
size mono sensors we have today...

Fingers crossed !

Alb?ric