QHYCCD

QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener

QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« on: October 27, 2018, 02:17:43 PM »
Hi everyone

I have some questions regarding the adapters-fittings available for the camera, the qhy163m - the filter wheel - QHYCFW2-M-US 36mm * 7 positions, to be connected directly to a 0.85x reducer / flattener Skywatcher.

If I have not misunderstood the kit to be purchased should contain these fittings: 020063, 020087, 020070 and 020071 shown in table three on the right of this link:

http://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=94&id=15&cut=1

My questions:

1 - are these the right adapters-fittings for my case?

2 - there is a PDF file with images that show all the precise steps by step  of the umounting and mounting of the fittings on the both QHYCFW2-M-US and the QHY163M and towards Skywatcher reducer / flattener 0.85x.

3 - Where to buy the fittings? are they also available in Europe?

Re: QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2018, 09:43:24 PM »
Hi Lormax

I have the 163M and the same FW and spent a lot of time trying to work out what adapters I needed so I think I can offer some relevant advice.
First, the QHY adapters you listed from the connection table are for connecting the FW to a Canon lens. Your Skywatcher 0.85 reducer/flattener has a male M48 thread connection facing the camera. If you attach a M48 Canon T-ring to the flattener then you can use these QHY adapters to connect the FW to the T-ring. The flattener has a backfocus of 55mm and a T-ring is usually 10mm deep so you would then be looking to construct an image train with optical depth of 44mm. You have to add one third of the width of your filters so, assuming your filters are 2mm thick then your target optical depth is about 44.5mm. You would use the spacer set (part 020087) to construct the correct length. My calculation is that you would need 5.5mm of spacers (i.e. use the 3mm+2mm+0.5mm spacers). I've bought all my QHY parts from Cyclops Optics in Hong Kong: they ship worldwide and usually have stock. I also got a M48 Canon T ring from them recently and was pleased by the quality.

If instead you want to connect the male 48mm interface of your flattener to the FW without using a T ring and T mount: the telescope facing side of the FW has a female M54 thread; the optical depth of the camera plus adapter 020063 plus the FW is 25mm, your flattener requires 55mm and if your filters are 2mm deep then that increases to 55.5mm so you then need components that connect a male M48 thread (on the flattener) to a female M54 thread (on the FW) with total optical depth of 30.5mm. In that case I would get a male M54 to female M48 adapter and screw that into the FW so now you want an M48 extension tube with depth (30.5mm - depth of the M54(M)/M48(F) adapter). E.g. Cyclops Optics have a M54(M)/M48(F) adapter which is 2mm deep so the length of the M48 extension tube would then be 28.5mm.  For 48mm components I'd suggest e.g. Teleskop Express in Germany: they have M48 extension tubes of various lengths and also "fine tuning" rings. So for example you could use their 20mm+5mm+3mm extension tubes and the 0.5mm fine tuning ring. Alternatively they have a variable M48 extension tube that ranges from 20.5mm to 31mm which is probably the best solution because you will probably need to tweak the spacing by a mm or two to find the best focus.

cheers
John

Re: QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2018, 08:11:05 AM »
Hi John, you are really a very kind person, your explanation was complete .

You referred to the thickness of the lenses, I have the Baader LRGB parafocale kit, 2mm thick.

For my limited experience with the measures or mm of the fittings, I personally need to understand for my setup what accessories or adapters to buy.

Based on your experience, can you tell me  (a LINK) which  fittings or adapters necessary for a good coupling between my reducer / flattener - filter wheel - QHY163M?

I do not want to abuse your patience but I would appreciate your instructions very much.

I would like to know:
- which screws must be unscrewed on the filter wheel to remove the quick coupling fitting for the chamber.

- on the chamber, which screws must be unscrewed to engage the new fitting that will be inserted at chamber, side in direction the filter wheel

- on the chamber, which adapters i needs to mounted to join it to the reducer / flatteners side .

It would be desirable that Mr. QHY insert explanatory images step by step for these types of couplings with the indication of the model of the fittings used, especially for amateurs with little manual skills and beginners like me.

Regards

Max

Re: QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2018, 02:16:55 PM »
Hi Lormax

I have the 163M and the same FW and spent a lot of time trying to work out what adapters I needed so I think I can offer some relevant advice.
First, the QHY adapters you listed from the connection table are for connecting the FW to a Canon lens. Your Skywatcher 0.85 reducer/flattener has a male M48 thread connection facing the camera. If you attach a M48 Canon T-ring to the flattener then you can use these QHY adapters to connect the FW to the T-ring. The flattener has a backfocus of 55mm and a T-ring is usually 10mm deep so you would then be looking to construct an image train with optical depth of 44mm. You have to add one third of the width of your filters so, assuming your filters are 2mm thick then your target optical depth is about 44.5mm. You would use the spacer set (part 020087) to construct the correct length. My calculation is that you would need 5.5mm of spacers (i.e. use the 3mm+2mm+0.5mm spacers). I've bought all my QHY parts from Cyclops Optics in Hong Kong: they ship worldwide and usually have stock. I also got a M48 Canon T ring from them recently and was pleased by the quality.

If instead you want to connect the male 48mm interface of your flattener to the FW without using a T ring and T mount: the telescope facing side of the FW has a female M54 thread; the optical depth of the camera plus adapter 020063 plus the FW is 25mm, your flattener requires 55mm and if your filters are 2mm deep then that increases to 55.5mm so you then need components that connect a male M48 thread (on the flattener) to a female M54 thread (on the FW) with total optical depth of 30.5mm. In that case I would get a male M54 to female M48 adapter and screw that into the FW so now you want an M48 extension tube with depth (30.5mm - depth of the M54(M)/M48(F) adapter). E.g. Cyclops Optics have a M54(M)/M48(F) adapter which is 2mm deep so the length of the M48 extension tube would then be 28.5mm.  For 48mm components I'd suggest e.g. Teleskop Express in Germany: they have M48 extension tubes of various lengths and also "fine tuning" rings. So for example you could use their 20mm+5mm+3mm extension tubes and the 0.5mm fine tuning ring. Alternatively they have a variable M48 extension tube that ranges from 20.5mm to 31mm which is probably the best solution because you will probably need to tweak the spacing by a mm or two to find the best focus.

cheers
John

Thanks for the briefing  :) :)

Re: QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2018, 09:38:11 PM »
Hi Lormax

No problem, I am happy to try to help. I know it can be confusing trying to work out which parts you need, especially if you don't have them in front of you and have to try to cross reference all the information that is available on the web.

First, can I assume you don't have any requirement to connect a Canon lens to your 163M+FW? Then we can forget about the T-ring and T-mounts and just look at a direct threaded connection which is going to be more robust and more reliable.

Out of the box, the 163M is fitted with a dovetail adapter and the FW is also fitted with a dovetail adapter on the camera facing side. You can easily connect the camera to the FW with these adapters. An issue that some users had with these adapters is that the backfocus - the optical depth - is quite large and this caused problems for users who wanted to use the camera+FW with regular Canon or Nikon lenses. Therefore QHY introduced 2 new adapters to connect the camera to the FW: these are the "small screw" adapter, part 020063, and the "big screw" adapter, part no. 020064. If you look in this forum thread you will find detailed instructions on how to connect the camera to the FW with these adapters. All you need is a screwdriver:
http://en.coolccd.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5659.0

Just to summarize the difference between these 2 adapters: both of the adapters are attached with screws to the front plate of the 163M, replacing the default dovetail adapter. For the "small screw" adapter 020063, it is then screwed to the FW via 4 small screws and you have to remove the top plate of the FW and the filter carousel to attach, or detach the camera with this adapter so it is almost a permanent connection.

The "big screw" adapter 020064 screws to the front of the 163M and presents a male M54 threaded connection. This can be screwed by hand into the FW (which has female threaded M54 holes on both the camera-facing and scope-facing sides).

The 020063 adapter adds only 1mm of backfocus distance, the 020064 adapter adds only 3mm. With the 020063 adapter, the total backfocus of the 163M+FW is 25.5mm. With the 020064 adapter the total backfocus of the 163M+FW is 27.5mm.

So which is the best option - the 020063 or 020064? The 020063 is a very secure connection and has shorter backfocus but it does mean you have to take the FW apart to e.g. clean any dust off the camera sensor glass. The 020064 is still a robust connection but the camera can easily be unscrewed from the FW for cleaning. I use the 020064 but it is your call as to which one you want.

Now look at the other side of the FW, facing the scope: there is a female M54 threaded hole and it has to be connected to the male M48 thread on the Skywatcher reducer. The reducer expects a total backfocus of 55mm so we need the FW/reducer connection to be either 29.5mm (if you use the 020063) or 27.5mm (if you use the 020064) in depth. M54 is not a very common size for components - most are M48 or M42, so the first thing to do is step down the M54 connection on the FW to M48. You need an adapter that has a male M54 thread on one side and a female M48 thread on the other. I just found a TS-Optics M54(M)/M48(F) adapter on the Teleskop-Express website, priced at only 3 euros which looks like a mistake. This adapter is only 1.5mm thick. I also mentioned that Cyclops Optics sell a M54(M)/M48(F) adapter and that is only 2mm thick. Assuming you get one of those adapters, the final bit of the puzzle is an M48 extension tube which has a male M48 thread at one end (to connect to the FW) and a female M48 thread at the other (to connect to the reducer) and is somewhere between 25.5mm and 28mm in length (depending on the combination of adapters you are using). I think the TS-Optics variable M48 extension tube looks ideal for this. Hope it is OK to include a link to it on the TS website:
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p10887_TS-Optics-massive-variable-M48-Extension-with-M68-intermediate-thread.html

But I have never seen or used this variable M48 extension myself, so I can't vouch for it personally. It covers a range from 20.5mm to 31mm which should more than meet your requirement.

The alternative to this is one or more fixed M48 extension tubes, assembled with spacers in between to match your required backfocus. An advantage of the variable extension tube is that the tolerances on all these parts is not perfect so if the arithmetic yields a theoretical backfocus of e.g. 27mm you may find in practice you have to adjust by 1 or 2mm in either direction to achieve the sharpest focus and flattest image. That is very easy to do with the variable extender but much less convenient with fixed extension tubes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
John



Re: QHY163 + QHYCFW2-M-US for Skywatcher, 0.85x reduction-flattener
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 10:05:19 AM »
Hello John,

after having thank for having found a solution Mr. QiuHY.

I wonder why Mr. QiuHY, after having understood and solved the problems they could have the various customers who buy theirs products have not thought, insert these adapters into the filtres wheel package, or into camera package thus avoiding the many comments

I wonder, why Mr. QiuHY when he inserts comments and pictures to explainthese changes do not do it with precise images step by step.

I wonder, why Mr. QiuHY's company does not sell these fittings directly, without having to turn to the network and have a surcharge from any reseller, for a change that is often necessary.

I wonder, if Mr. QiuHY reads these comments so he can participate with his own comment.

Anyway, thank you for to answer you, you had also clarified in the previous mail the differences of the two fittings "020063" and "020064"

I has only  asked the clarification for of unmount  and mount step by step with then images to implement the changes whit  the adapter "020063" or adapter  "020064" ... for example, mentioning your writing such as referring to: (http://en.coolccd.com/bbs/index.php?topic=5659.0 ) "For the "small screw" adapter 020063, it is then screwed to the FW via 4 small screws and you have to remove the top plate of the FW and the filter carousel to attach, or detach the camera with this adapter so it is almost a permanent connection."
how to act manually from after removing the top plate of the FW to do:

1- disassemble dovetail adapter
2- Remove the filter carousel
3- Mount the new adapter so that it is almost a permanent connection.
4- identical operations of 1,2,3 points with images for the camera.

I hope I have clarified my doubts, I would like images to view these operations, I suppose that the small adjustments are personal dedicated to  own setup .

Thanks you to write, yes this i helps.  :)

Cheers